To Spank or Not to Spank?
Do you believe in spanking a child?
If someone were to ask me that two years ago, before I had a son, I would surely have said yes. We’ve all seen the kids in the grocery store and on the playground raising hell and in desperate need of discipline. You know, the same kind of kids that make you think that things like population control aren’t necessarily bad ideas.
On the other hand, we’ve also seen the abusive parents beating the crap out of their kids on Aisle 7. The kind of beat downs that make you think maybe the government should have stepped in with some sort of program before THEY were born.
But my son, E isn’t one of those kids.
The first two years have been a dream. I couldn’t ask for a better behaved, more thoughtful child. He is fun, goofy, energetic and his smile softens my tough, crunchy chocolate shell.
E has never really given us a reason to discipline him beyond the occasional “time out” – a term which makes me cringe a little. I can imagine someone suggesting that my dad or better yet, my grandfather – a man whose anger is the stuff of legend and these days, would probably be the stuff of police blotters – use a “time out.”
Usually, E listens when we ask him to do something, and more importantly, when not to do something. I think he was testing the waters last night, though.
I asked him to take a toy out of his mouth while he was running around the house. Usually, in a situation like this, he will take the toy out and then start to put it back in just to see what I do one or two more times before eventually obeying. Last night, though, he replied, “no” and then ran around the living room, laughing.
So I did my best strong, but calm Adult Voice and said if he didn’t listen, he would go to timeout.
He kept running, ignoring me and laughing. I chased him down and put him in his timeout spot and pulled the toy from his mouth. I remained calm (at least I think I was – maybe Blogger Mom will say otherwise in the comments) and started to walk away. E then jumped up and started running again, smiling and laughing like he does when I chase him around the house for fun.
Meanwhile, my wife is doing her best not to laugh. Because even though he is disobeying us, he is being very cute and funny.
I started to reconsider the punishment. It wasn’t a big deal, the toy in the mouth. However, it had become a big deal because he was ignoring me. While he might not have realized the seriousness and might have even thought I was playing, I couldn’t take the chance of backing down and undermine future efforts to discipline.
So, the scene went on a few more minutes, each time, E ran away from me or squirmed away when I attempted to sit down with him. He even smacked my face one time when I was picking him up. He apologized immediately afterward and hugged me. However, he still wasn’t ready to sit in timeout.
I felt like I was running out of options and started mulling the nuclear option -
Spanking.
Nothing severe, nothing borne of anger or frustration, just a smack or two on the hand or bottom. Something to get him to listen to me.
However, there is a part of me that has come to be very opposed to spanking.
Here is why I am opposed to spanking.
- Physical discipline says that violence is a legitimate response to dealing with issues.
- It damages an unspoken covenant you have with your child, which states that you will never intentionally inflict pain.
- Hitting your child, especially when they are too young to understand what is happening, is nothing short of betrayal of an inherent trust and bond.
However, try as I might, I cannot look at this child, who means so much to me and has impacted my life so much and who sees me as his daddy, buddy and protector and hit him.
My wife eventually stepped in, once it was clear that I didn’t know what to do. E listened to her after a little bit of a struggle and then started taking the discipline serious and cried to get up.
Flash forward 22 hours.
My wife was at a friend’s house and I was with E. We were having fun, playing in the living room when he suddenly asked, “Spank?”
“Huh?”
“Spank me,” he said, turning his backside to me.
“You want me to spank you?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said, laughing as if we were playing a game.
Clearly, he has seen someone get spanked, perhaps my sister-in-law spanked one of the girls in front of him when she was visiting? And clearly, he doesn’t seem to understand that spanking is not fun (no jokes from the naughtier of you).
“Daddy doesn’t want to spank you,” I said.
Daddy doesn’t ever want to hit you.
So, what is your experience with spanking? Does it work for you? Are you opposed? Under what conditions is it okay (if ever?). I realize that this is a controversial topic which could elicit some strong comments – so I must ask everybody to remain civil if a debate erupts. I’d hate to have to spank everyone.
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44 Responses to “To Spank or Not to Spank?”
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As a mum to be, I’ve not yet had to make any decisions on this…… but at the moment I would say its not a good thing, for the exact reasons you say. But I understand a tap on the hand may be effective. I dont think that children respond to fear though, they respond to respect….. so another reason I am in the no camp. Im rambling a bit, so will stop there…. interesting topic though!
OMG We’re Pregnant´s last blog ..Baby Love – Newborn Daze
I don’t spank, much for the reasons you gave. I think it’s also sending mixed messages: “Your shouldn’t hit, and because you did I’m going to hit you as punishment.” I’m a firm believer in the “I act the way I want my children to act so they learn how to behave from seeing it in action” rather than the “Tell them how they’re wrong and correct them after the fact” camp of child-rearing.
I also think that discipline isn’t just a reaction to unwanted behavior. It’s having boundaries and expectations of your kids – even as young as babies – and teaching them how to act according to your standards. So for me, spanking falls into the category of punishment, rather than discipline.
I try to reserve time-outs for really serious offenses, like hitting or physically hurting someone. Or when my kids are just out of control and need a break to sit and chill out. For something like running with a toy in his mouth, I’d have taken it away altogether after the second time of not listening to me telling him to do so. And explained why: “That toy could hurt your mouth”. Immediate Cause-and-Effect, and directly related to the problem, with rationale. For both of my kids, that method has worked really well.
It’s not that I don’t lose my cool or that I never find myself needing a time-out because I’ve misbehaved. I certainly have my moments, too. But I want my children to know that my hands are safe, and are there to protect them. Not to ever hurt them. Even if it’s in the name of discipline.
Heather @critter chronicles´s last blog ..Wordless Wednesday: Bug’s Second Birthday
Interesting. You are describing the situation we have with our little one -although she is a bit younger than E (only just 1) She is cheeky and intelligent and loves to challenge everything we ask her. I agree with everything you said about spanking and at the moment she loves nothing more than being spanked on the nappy – makes her giggle happily. The problem we have is that in order to “spank” hard enough to get the message across we would be effectively hitting her – not spanking – and I will NOT do that for all the reasons you list.
Before we had her we agreed that a light tap when they are young(and never out of anger) would mean you would never need to as they get older. Now I can’t see any situation where that would be constructive. We put her in timeout even though she is not quite old enough to understand – but she still cries for having her freedom removed and it tears our hearts out to see her cry. Like E she is also awfully cute and funny when she is being naughty. She looks at us with a cheeky grin when we say no and does it anyway! The problem is that these are things for her own safety- she has total freedom to play, bash and throw. But not to pull the telly on top of her or put her fingers in power sockets. These require discipline – how the hell do you deliver that effectively???
While I feel it’s ultimately up to the parent to decide, I won’t spank my kids. As you say, it teaches violence is an acceptable option. and anyway, by the time spanking became appropriate I would probably be angry. and I never want to hit my kids in anger.
Dan´s last blog ..Serendipity
We don’t smack in this house. For me, resorting to smacking is an indication that you have lost control of the situtation and you’re opening yourself up to a whole can of worms as they get older.
I have heard arguments for and against, but it’s not ever going to be an option for me.
I wrote about the same thing a while back and the comments were amazing (and there was thankfully no scraping when opinions differed!)
http://stickyfingers1.blogspot.com/2009/03/do-you-smackspank.html
Tara@Sticky Fingers´s last blog ..Wordless Wednesday: My son has magical powers
I almost said my kids are beyond this, but then I had a flashback to a discussion with my son last week (he’s 20 now and can kiss me on top of my head without having to bend down very much…) – when he was being cheeky and I told him “you’re not too big to spank, you know?”… So never mind…
What I did want to say though, was that several years ago, when my kids were young enough that this was an issue, I was an instructor for a cutting edge program that taught parenting skills to low-income parents – and they could become certified peer-parenting instructors and teach the class to others.
It taught a variety of parenting skills – including this one that I used with my own kids, because I didn’t spank either – again for all the reasons mentioned above.
The basic premise is this…
You pay attention to the behaviors your child is doing for a couple of days to a week. (As they get older, the unacceptable behaviors will increase, trust me.) But for a baby to a toddler, you want to focus on the behaviors that are either unsafe or socially (to you) unacceptable.
So that might include:
running with a toy in the mouth
touching things that they’re not allowed to touch
hitting others
anything that is unsafe and could result in injury
Then you create a “if” “then” list.
If you run with a toy in your mouth, then you will have to sit in time out. (By the way, time out generally should be 1 minute for every year of age.) So a one-year old should only be in time out for one minute, a two-year old for two minutes, etc. When they get beyond 5 or 6 and have a capacity for understanding the difference between right and wrong and safe and unsafe and acceptable and unacceptable, it’s time to look at different things- like taking away privileges.
Next, start with one behavior at a time, especially for very young kids.
When they start doing something that’s on the list, you need to get their attention. So you might want to pick them up, sit in a favorite chair, take them out of the room their in, etc.
Keep things simple. Tell them “No, you can’t do that.” And then give them the “if” “then” consequence. And tell your child you love them. And then go back to the place they were at.
Here are the main things to focus on:
1. Keep it simple so they understand
2. Focus on the behavior – not the child.
3. Tell them you love them. A lot. Praise your child when s/he is doing things right. And when you’re praising them, make sure you’re telling them you love them and you’re proud of their behavior. Because the two are very different and kids need to understand from a very early age that they are always loved, even when their behavior isn’t, and that a behavior doesn’t make them a bad kid.
4. Make the consequence clear and make sure it fits the behavior – and doesn’t go overboard – this is important as they start getting older and begin testing their boundaries even further. (After all, that’s their job – it’s part of how kids learn social behavior and what behaviors are not acceptable.)
5. Stay consistent. Whatever consequence you’ve chosen for the behavior, you have to stick to it – every single time.
6. Never punish, and never set a consequence when you’re angry or upset. If you’re too angry to handle things calmly, give yourself a time out – and make sure again, that your child understands that you’re angry at the behavior, not the child, and that sometimes mommies and daddies need time outs too.
What’s wonderful about this system is that as your child gets older, they learn self control, and also learn they have the power over themselves and the situation.
As my kids got older, I let them choose their own consequences – and they were usually harder on themselves than I would have been. But because they understood the consequences for unacceptable behaviors, they seldom misbehaved. And usually all it took was a reminder “If you do that, remember the consequence is going to be…”
Anyway, those are the thoughts of a mom with kids who grew up too quickly and who misses those days of little people and little adventures. Which is why I’m enjoying reading your blog so much!
Warmly,
Cheryl
Ok Cheryl – so what do you do when your little one loves the “praise when they listen” process so much that they do the dangerous thing so they can get the praise when they stop?
Not a mom but I saved an article on spanking a year or go ago that I agree with and want to share. It is by T. Berry Brazelton.
“Spanking isn’t same as discipline
Discipline is such a passionate concern for parents, and few child-rearing practices stir up more heated debate than spanking. Why? Because our beliefs about discipline come from the most highly emotionally charged experiences of our own childhoods and from our visions of the world we must prepare our children for. Often deeply rooted in class, culture and religion, as well as personal experience, these beliefs deserve our best efforts to understand them.
Our belief is that spanking is not necessary, can be harmful and certainly does not serve the purposes of discipline. Punishment that merely stops a problem behavior in the moment – and any aversive stimulus applied to a misbehaving child can accomplish this – does not teach the child, nor does it prepare him for the ultimate goal of discipline: self-discipline.
Discipline is not punishment but teaching. Punishments that do not teach will not help the child learn to control his behavior when parents are not present or once the child is too big to be physically dominated by parents. A child who has not been disciplined to learn self-control by the time he is old enough to be unsupervised by parents is a child in danger.
Many parents who were spanked as children tell us that they do not remember why they were spanked, or what they learned, but that they remember being spanked, how it felt and how angry they were. Many remember feeling less trusting and accepting of their parents’ authority and wisdom when physical force was used against them.
Some parents, though, say, “Look at me. I was spanked as a child, and I turned out OK.” To them, we ask, “Did you turn out OK because you were spanked, or in spite of it?”
For more on discipline see our short book, Discipline: The Brazelton Way, published by Da Capo Press, 2003.”
“Discipline is not punishment but teaching” is the line in this article that always stood out to me. What does your child get from spanking except to fear you? I do however think an occasional swat on the hand (not a ruler or making the hand red) isn’t about punishment and should be used when child is in harm or to get attention if saying his/her name fails and they are doing something that is about to bring the house down.
~Lisa
Hi Dawn,
First of all, how old is your child? And secondly – sometimes kids act up because they’re testing their limits… Sometimes they act up because that’s the only way they feel like they get attention from their parents… And sometimes there are other reasons (for example I have a friend who’s son has a form of autism called Asperger’s Syndrome) and that’s an entirely different subject.
So if your child is acting up because they’re really young and can’t understand, just stay patient and consistent and keep using the consequence.
If your child loves the praise – then give it to them – a lot. Make it relevant, make it specific and praise your child for things like:
*Dressing themselves
*Helping (with whatever they did)
*Being nice to the dog
*Eating all their vegetables
I’m not talking about getting all gushy and turning into a caricature of one of “those” people who talk babytalk nonsense to their yip-ey little dogs. I’m talking about respecting your child for the amazing, incredible unique being that s/he is, and letting him/her know when s/he’s doing something right.
As your child’s mommy, you are the absolute “it” in his/her world. S/he wants to please you, because s/he loves you. And when they know that their behavior pleases you, kids just naturally do more of it, because, like us, they love being praised and being told when they’re doing something right.
When your child does something wrong to get more praise, stop the behavior immediately, give them the consequence – and remind why the behavior isn’t acceptable. Tell them you love them and you’ll talk to them in a little while.
In the beginning, when I first starting doing this with my kids, I’d sit down with them or hold them after the consequence was done and remind them that while I loved them, it was my job to keep them safe and teach them the difference between right and wrong. And that’s why there was a consequence for (whatever the behavior was.) And then I’d tell them what behavior they could do instead the next time. (For example, “…instead of touching the scissors, ask mommy and let me help you. I love getting to cut pictures out with you.” Or, “…instead of hitting your brother, come and tell daddy or I that you’re mad at him and why.”)
I’ll be honest, this wasn’t an easy thing for me to learn in the beginning. Consistency was probably the hardest, because I’m more of a spontaneous kind of person… But I honestly felt like this was so much better for my kids (and I can’t speak to anyone else’s situation – and I’m not trying to come off as “the” parenting expert) but for us, it worked like gangbusters – especially as the kids got older. They understood the family “rules,” they knew what behaviors weren’t acceptable and if they chose to act that way anyway, they knew what consequences to expect – (so they usually chose not to do it.) Not always, but at least when they did act up, they also knew that it was the behavior not them and that made a lot of difference to them as people. (At least that’s what my 20 year old told me last week – when he said I’d have to go sit on the time out couch if I spanked him, because we don’t hit in our family.)
Hope that helps!
Warmly,
Cheryl
Thanx Cheryl. We do all of that. We have no intention of smacking her. Since she could crawl (she now walks btw) she showed she understood what “no” means – and for a while responded really well – and we would give her loads of praise and clapping when she listened. We hate hearing ourselves say no. We want it to be a little used word in our vocab!
As she gets older she loves to push the boundaries more and more. She is 1 so still very much learning and obviously unable to understand reasoning but rather understands actions. Now, when it is really dangerous, we try no and when that doesn’t work we put her in a playpen for 1 minute. And we know she understands because she used to respond to no very well and she cries when we remove her freedom. After 1 minute she gets a big hug and told we love her and even though she can’t understand we explain what just happened. She then stands up looks over and grins and goes ahead and does it again! When she listens we tell her how clever she is and clap happily. She loves that. So now she looks across at us grins, goes and does it, grins when we say no, and only when we get up to fetch her does she stop doing it and laughs and claps happily!
We know she will learn eventually and will keep persevering. And as with blogger dad she is so cute and funny it is very hard not to laugh sometimes! She is adorable and really well behaved most of the time too. So I have no cause to complain. I love what you say about your son and would like to have the same sort of conversation with her at his age!
I don’t currenlty spank my kid. I don’t have a philosophical objection to spanking my kid, I just can’t do it when I get mad.
GenuineChris Johnson´s last blog ..Are You A Stupid Bull? Do You Charge The Matador’s Cape?
I’m a bit conflicted over this issue, mostly because my son is still very young (15 months) and is by and large very well behaved. I don’t ever want to do anything that will make him fear me, but I do want to make sure that he respects me. While we were playing the other day he bit me on the shoulder and it hurt like all get out. I didn’t spank him, but I did put him in his crib. He cried, and it killed me, but I calmly told him that there was no biting. Biting Papa, or anyone else, was not nice.
My mother never really spanked us when we were kids. She had the death stare and two finger death grip (index and thumb pinching under your arm) that got your attention and you stopped whatever it was you were doing that annoyed her.
Besides, I don’t think spanking will work on my son, because I regularly play butt bongos with him where the frustrated drummer in me taps out paradiddles on his backside in a playful way. He laughs and get a big kick out it. So, even if I was for the whole spanking side of this argument, I may have completely underminded myself
PJ Mullen´s last blog ..Two Sons for Two Brothers
My wife and I constantly debate this topic. Neither of us were physically disciplined as a child and we are highly against spanking. My sister and her “spare the rod, spoil the child” would disagree. Hitting a child makes them fear you, not respect you (even if it’s not done in anger). They will behave just enough to not get spanked, not because it’s appropriate behavior.
That being said, my 4 y/o is CONSTANTLY testing our patience and is regularly dis-respectful. Especially during bedtime routine. When the witching hour approaches, he becomes more of a demon. I hate putting him to bed because it’s a hassle almost every single night. Threatening no snack, books, drink never works. Just last night, my wife gave up because after his bath he was running around the house naked in a terror chasing the cats and yelling/screaming, etc. Sometimes it’s hard to remain calm and if the other parent isn’t around, it’s difficult to deal with. Luckily I was about to calm him down with a count to 3.
Most people advocate the 1-2-3 magic, but sometimes that doesn’t work. Especially when the child doesn’t care about the consequences. And how many times can you physically hold your child down in time-out? Only in extreme cases do we turn to a smack on the butt. Never in anger (which is difficult) and we always explain that we love him, but he can’t act that way. Keep in mind, this in extreme circumstances when repercussions for his actions go un-heeded. I could threaten to take out every stuffed animal, toy, CD player from his room and it won’t phase him (I’ve done this). So, what else can you do? Sometimes you cannot find any way to rationalize with a crazy toddler. And it’s not legal to shoot them with a tranquilizer – even if they are acting like a wild animal.
“two finger death grip” and “butt bongos” – your house is fab PJ!
Tara@Sticky Fingers´s last blog ..Wordless Wednesday: My son has magical powers
Great topic Blogger Dad and thanks for all of the helpful comments. I have two ages 3 1/2 and 6 1/2 and do admit I could do better with the consistency of the discipline. I too am more spontaneous. I think I’ll go write a “if” list…
Laura
Laura Aridgides´s last blog ..Are You Using a Company-Replicated Website?
This is one of the main reasons I don’t have children – I have a flash temper & I could never be sure that I would be able to be consistent & fair. My first response would be to spank – & I KNOW I don’t want to do that!
Danabug´s last blog ..Grief and Great Joy
I am grateful to be long past the stage of spanking. However, in the days when it was an option – it was always the option of “last resort”. My children never got a spanking they didn’t BEG to get… as in “I am going to count to three and if you don’t stop – you’re getting a spanking.”
Even so – I was surprised when I heard my now 22 year old daughter telling someone that she was GLAD she was spanked as a child and how she intends to spank her own children.
Again – I had a “policy” of not spanking out of anger and they always had opportunity to avoid the spanking by stopping whatever behavior they were engaged in.
If I needed a physical release for my anger – I put in one of my FIRM workout tapes. My kids still remember how I would put them in the playroom – adjacent to the living room – and push the coffee table to block them in. I didn’t close the door – so they could still see me – but I worked out my frustrations with weights and vented my anger at Susan Harris and the other FIRM instructors instead of my children.
I had the most magnificent upper arms in those days! SIGH! Maybe I need a pre-schooler to revisit that level of frustration which drove me to daily FIRM workouts!
Kathy | Virtual Impax´s last blog ..Social Media’s Warning Label
Sorry Bloggerdad for making this forum about our kids, but I have a question for Cheryl.
My 27 month old hits me. I usually try to take her hand and softly brush it against my face and say touch nice. This makes her angry and she keeps hitting me. I will then just get up and walk away from her when it gets to a point that I can’t get her to stop. She then goes into full tantrum mode. When she is done, I hug and kiss her and tell her that it is not ok to hit. I know she knows she is loved. I am VERY touchy, kissey, huggie with her and for the most part she is a very happy loving toddler. Here is the bigger problem though. Our whole family play fights (hits)a lot. We are trying to stop, since I am guessing that is why my daughter started this behavior in the first place. We do it in fun and are always laughing, but it is probablly not showing my 2 year old the right thing. We are getting better at it, but it is kind of the way we show affection. She seems to actually be angry when she is hitting though. With out shutting a door, I can’t get her to stay put in any 1 place for a time out. I feel like if I shut a door, she will be afraid and I will be teaching her that I am going away. Any advise other than quit showing her how to hit. I know that is wrong and am working on it. She really never see’s anger in our home. We are for the most part, a bunch of smartalics, not angry people.
We do occasionally spank, but frankly, we don’t have to do it very often. Baby Girl knows that this is a punishment and ususally all we have to say is “one more time and you get a spanking” and she stops because she doesn’t want one.
I think different types of punishements work with different kids. You just have to keep trying different things until you get it right. That is the reason that I try to stay away from “I’ll never” or any kind of absolute. Just do what works for you and your kid.
Jennifer´s last blog ..Self Portrait, Wordless Wednesday
Hi Danielle,
I have a radio show in 10 minutes, but when I’m done, I’ll be back and answer your questions and maybe be able to give you some resources!
Warmly,
Cheryl
I try my best to not smack my boys, Zack is old enough that time out is the worst possible thing for him. Max is coming into the stage at the moment when he likes doing dangerous things like climbing up on the window ledge. No matter how often I tell him now and to get down, he always goes back up. So I have taken to giving him a small smack on the back of his leg whenever he’s up there. It’s dangerous, he could fall, but he’s not old enough to understand me trying to explain that. By associating climbing up there with a smack, he’s doing it less and less now. I did the same with Zack and now I can’t remember the last time I did smack him.
I think that it’s useful to avert a child from touching/doing something dangerous when they’re not quite at the age of being able to explain it, but once they are I’d rather do as you do, use time outs and explanations.
I feel really lucky that my boys are pretty well behaved most of the time, and I am much more relaxed these days since their dad left, so I’m sure that has something to do with my more relaxed attitude now too.
Marylin´s last blog ..20 Things That Make Me Happy!
Okay Danielle,
I’m back. Couple of thoughts – as a mom only, not a professional! Some kids go through a phase where they get angry – sometimes it’s because they are processing so much – and there’s so much that’s new going on in their worlds that it gets overwhelming.
Other times, they’re trying to communicate and when we don’t get the message, they get angry.
Other times, just like some adults, they’re people with short fuses.
If she absolutely won’t stop hitting, taking her hand and holding it is an option. So is putting her in her room, her bed or on a chair. And telling her ‘We don’t hit.” (Sometimes you have to do this over and over and over.)
I think you’re probably right about trying to change the rough housing you do – at least when she’s around until she gets a little older and can understand and participate without getting angry – you mentioned she seems to be angry when she hits. It may be that it does bother her, but she is trying to do what she sees.
For the most part, just keep doing what you’re doing – loving your daughter and teaching her how to control her temper. Chances are this is a phase. But if it keeps up, or you’re concerned about it, talk to your pediatrician and see what s/he says.
Hang in there…
Warmly,
Cheryl
Hmm…I seem to be in the minority, here, and am hesitant to say it…but I have spanked.
Oh, not hard, not often, not much, and not without going through a lengthy process (something akin to that if/then system) with the Evil Genius, but there have been spankings administered at Casa de Crazy.
I don’t like it. I don’t like resorting to violence. It offends my sense of justice – his actions should not result in an escalated response from me. I don’t want to teach him that violence is an option when responding to life, the Universe, and everything.
So why?
Why take my hand to his bottom, even lightly?
Once or twice I have lost my temper entirely, gone beyond reason and into that place where I am cold and angry and no longer Mommy. Sometimes, he and I have gone back and forth, attempting to correct a behavior for hours or even days with constant testing of the boundaries. We have a system, a process, and he’s been aware of it since he was two (he’s six, now). He knows what happens when we reach the end of that line – up to three taps on his bottom with an open hand.
I am relieved that I’ve only had to resort to spanking a handful of times – usually, removing him from whatever is causing the behavior works fine. He’ll even remove himself if he realizes he’s spiraling out of control…and those are moments of pride, for me, because I think it’s tremendous that a child can do that…see that something is causing him to lose control and deal with it. I haven’t spanked him in…um…you know what? I can’t recall…several years, at least.
These days, I find speaking quietly and calmly, using reason, and explaining things to him to be most effective. If my hand touches his bottom, it’s likely because we’re playing bum-drums (butt-bongos – I love that phrase!) or I’m tickling him (his bum’s ticklish – go figure).
Sorry to take up so much space…even after I read and deleted a bunch, it still went long…but I wanted to give as complete an answer as I could to a fairly charged topic.
Shade and Sweetwater,
K
Kyddryn´s last blog ..Sucks to Be Meme
Just one last comment from the peanut gallery…
I’m really impressed with all of you – you who are parents – you’re obviously caring, loving people and your kids are lucky to have you.
Those who aren’t parents – it’s a personal choice, and I hope no one ever makes you feel bad or guilty for making a decision that’s right for you.
This is obviously a highly charged issue – and as I’ve read the responses, the first thing that struck me was how lucky we are to have the internet and to have a place like this to hang out and talk and ask and answer questions. (I wish I’d had it when my kids were growing up.)
And finally, there’s no such thing as a “perfect parent.” Sadly, somebody forgot to include the training manual when we ordered the new models. So give yourselves a break. All you can do is the best you can. And your kids will grow up to be the wonderful, unique people they’re meant to be anyway – in part in spite of you, in part because of you. (I could tell you a story about a belly button that fell off too early according to “the book” and a bottle of super glue… but I’m not going to.) Just trust me on this… I know what I’m talking about.
So don’t be too hard on yourself if you’ve spanked. If you haven’t, chances are, there will come a time you do. (Like the first time your child reaches for a pan of boiling hot water on the stove, or runs into the street without looking.)
The most important thing you can do for your child is what you’re doing now. Being there and loving them and being the role model you already are.
Warmly,
Cheryl
I don’t remember whether I spanked our daughter. I do remember pulling her hair once. This was in response to her pulling my hair repeatedly (as well as acting crazy and what not). This was a surprisingly effective way to get her to stop and experience some empathy. She was a bit older than yours, so she understood when I said, “Now you know what that feels like.”
In retrospect, this seems like a silly, childish response from a parent. But consider how two siblings might work out these kinds of issues — in an “eye for an eye” fashion.
We found two books / methods helpful: “1-2-3 Magic” and “The Explosive Child”. The best thing I got from the latter is perspective — you realize that you can let things slide.
Good luck!
Square Peg Guy´s last blog ..Wednesday Weigh-In 20090729
First, just wish to share my experience in the matter at hand, and then move on to reading the many comments – wow, sure looking forward to this communities perspective.
I did not respect my parents for the way they chose to punsih me. At some point I put it all in the terms of ‘they did the best the could with the tools they had at the time’ perspective.
Anyhow, I was spanked as a kid. I really resented and hated it – of course. I never felt it was for my own good, nor that it hurt my parents m0re than me. I really hated and resented my parents for it. As an adult it took a long time to ‘get over’ that type of parenting. Talk about issues
As a parent, I will not/have not resort/ed to spanking.
Thanks Cheryl and bloggerdad for the toppic and the advice. Great Post and very helpful.
Cheryl, if you don’t already, maybe you should have some sort of help/chat forum. You seem completely non-judgmental and knowledgeable.
Danielle´s last blog ..SCORE!!!!
Just came back to say what a wonderful bunch of responses. A great community indeed where support and understanding flourish.
I noticed many of the reasons to not spank started with not wanting to show violence, I just want to reiterate the net result from my experience, was fear, hatred, anger, lack of respect and continued resentment – all things no parent really wants from their child either.
I doubt that the smack on the hand/nappy/leg type spank would result in my reaction BTW, as mine resulted from harsher ‘spankings.’ I would call the other type a tool to get their attention….
Also, for the non parents, concerned about their abilities/control – you too can overcome
My wife and I ran a preschool together where we had 14 children under the age of 5 at all times. Obviously there were times when children needed discipline. However, spanking was not an option. There is ALWAYS a way to communicate with your child without getting physical. Plain and simple. I believed in spanking before having children. Now, no way, Jose. It is teaching them the wrong thing at the wrong time. There are a million consequences we can give our children, there is no reason to reach for one so base.
Writer Dad´s last blog ..The Apple and the Tree
My son is 25 months and acts it at times. Hitting, kicking, slapping at us when he is tired and frustrated. We will never spank him though. As so many have mentioned before, there are much better ways to deal with tired behavior than to let them know that it is ok. We are using the if then method Cheyrl advocates and it really has worked to help him through this phase of learning to deal with his emotions.
Peace,
SeattleDad
SeattleDad´s last blog ..Wordless Wednesday: "Daddy, I Do Big Eyes"
Wow, lots of great comments and advice. For those who worried about taking too much space talking about their own kids – don’t worry. This comments section is for you all to talk. I enjoy hearing about other people’s experiences in parenting, what works, what doesn’t, etc…
I’ll come back later and comment a bit more. E is waking up from his nap.
Thanks again.
Hi Tim (Shady)
For some reason, I just got your comments. (Silly google.) I do have a little advice on the bedtime routine. Again, like everything else, you have to try different things til you find something that works for you. However… this worked for my youngest (who we swore had been switched at birth. I’m sure I saw Mrs. Energizer Bunny in the birthing suite next to mine when I had T… And that’s what he was kind of like – he didn’t sleep, he just recharged.)
Anyway, we learned to make bedtime a ritual. About an hour before bedtime, we turned the lights down, and put on oldies rock and roll. (I know, but I TRIED classical, and it just wound him up. Energizer bunny’s child…) We gave him a bath, and then my husband or I would sit with him in the rocking chair and rub his tummy and sing Mick Jagger songs. While he was still young enough to have a bottle, he got a bottle of warm water with an apple juice chaser (a little juice for flavor – and I know – the teeth thing is always a worry…) Then we’d read him a story (Where the wild things are was always his favorite), and by the time we were about halfway through, he’d be asleep.
On the nights that didn’t work, we’d take him for a drive. And play oldies on the radio – and usually before we’d get all the way around the block, he’d be out like a light.
Now this might seem like too much work – if so, that’s okay. Try other routines. The point is, the bedtime routine – when done consistently – and done in a way that he looks forward to, works on kids much like it does on adults.
With the Energizer bunny, I didn’t want to get into a power struggle, cause I knew I wasn’t going to win. So I looked for a way to make bedtime a little softer, a little slower, a little more sleepy time than “dance all night.”
One other thought – is he still taking naps in the daytime? Maybe it’s time to try stopping those, or making them shorter…
In any case, hang in there. The older he gets, the easier this struggle will get.
Warmly,
Cheryl
I don’t have kids, but I have nieces and nephews. I AM TOTALLY on the other fence of most of the commenters here.
I wholeheartedly believe in spanking.
I was spanked as a kid, and I turned out better. Not in spite of the spanking, BETTER. I was a pretty bad kid (or at least, starting to be), and I was testing all the rules of my parents to try and see what I could get away with.
I learned fast after the first couple of spanks that I couldn’t thwart the rules and I just never challenged my parents in that way again, if I knew that I was being bad.
I guess it’s because I grew up in a country that believed in spanking (it’s a whole cultural thing), very European and Asian.
Only North Americans don’t believe in spanking, and only in time outs. That’s interesting that we’ve come up with a soft way to punish people in society (jail), and a soft way to punish children (time outs).
Neither seems to work 100% effectively to stop crime and to keep people out of jail and to keep kids from never doing a time out again.
My nieces and nephews LOVE time out. They get to sit there, calm down, relax and do whatever they want.
Nothing fazes them in a time out.
If we were harder as a society on criminals (death penalty for drug trafficking, without exceptions), we’d be better off. Period. The crime rate would drop drastically because people would think twice about engaging in such a behaviour as their priority is #1.
And it’s the same with children. They’re going to think twice about being naughty ON PURPOSE if they know a spanking is coming.
If they are naughty by accident (my nephew just didn’t know that trying to climb a chandelier was a bad thing), then I agree with NOT spanking, and telling them that they scared you and that’s why you’re angry, but you’re not angry AT them. Just scared.
No. These rules for spanking or not spanking, and time outs and all that BS just doesn’t work. I’ve worked so many years observing parents & their kids, and I’d rather err on the side of spanking.
(But not to bruise the child. There’s a fine line).
If you’re wondering how a 2-year old can even understand WHY you are spanking them (as not to spoil them), how can you even imagine that they will make the connection that spanking promotes violence?
FB – Thanks for commenting. I see where you’re coming from, and felt similar until I had a child and started observing parents who spank versus those who don’t. I won’t argue with commenters here who do spank. I was spanked – though it did nothing but make me fear my father when I was younger. I behaved not because of the threat of spanking, though, but because of the respect my parents showed me and how they talked with me.
For your question on how would spanking promote violence, a two year old may not understand WHY you are hitting them. However, they are starting to get a grasp on cause and effect. And by hitting them for doing something that you don’t want them to do, you are teaching them that violence is an appropriate response to deal with people who do not do what we want them to do.
In my experience, the most violent kids I know of are the ones whose parents spank them. I am not saying that all kids will become violent but I haven’t seen many positive outcomes from routine spankings.
I would disagree wholeheartedly on your death penalty for drugs though. And this comes from someone who is pretty much as straight as they come – no drugs or alcohol. I grew up watching a family member who abused alcohol – a drug which our country has no problem with keeping legal despite all of the deaths and destruction it is directly responsible for – so I have never been tempted by or seen the allure of such things.
I think criminilization of marijuana has led to more problems in our society than the drug itself has. Our prisons are full of marijuana abusers who in some states get harsher sentences than people who murder. There are murderers who walk while drug dealers serve life sentences. Countries such as Amsterdam where drugs are tolerated have less of a crime rate, and according to studies I’ve read, have less drug use of people who live there.
The problem with this country is that we punish people with addictions rather than help them. We turn a legitimate disease into a criminal offense. Yes, there are some programs in place but most are woefully inadequete.
I think the only reason a drug like marijuana is not yet legal has more to do with lobbyists for pharmaceutical companies ensuring that people pay for THEIR expensive drugs rather than ones you can grow on your own rather than any sense of protecting people from a drug that has not directly caused even one death in the United States. Fact is that prescription drugs and alcohol are responsible for many more deaths than illegal drugs in this country.
Some good reading on the subject would be the book Reefer Madness by Eric Schlosser, which does a very balanced study on the black market in the United States. It also has some interesting and eye opening information on how and why marijuana became illegal in this country.
/end of drug rant
Thanks for weighing in.
I feel I’m in the minority on this one as well, but like a few or the other commenter’s, I believe in spanking. However, I take a bit of a tiered approach. I have found that the ‘if’ list does indeed work wonders, but sometimes things just need escalated.
Also we don’t give our kids enough credit for being smart. I think that even at less than a year old, kids aren’t “too young” to know what’s going on. They are fully aware of their actions and outcomes of certain actions. Now I wouldn’t spank a child that young, but they understand what’s happening, just don’t have a sophisticated way of communicating their thoughts.
The last point I would like to make is there are tons of ways to damage the unspoken covenant with your child besides spanking, it’s all in the delivery. My goal is to cause a little discomfort for the child, no matter what form the discipline may take (time-out, spanking, taking a toy, etc.). However, do so in love, and a very clear, concise, and very consistant manner. Any discipline, when done with the wrong spirit, or inconsistantly will damage that covenant.
Scott´s last blog ..Standing On Your Own
I’ve had thoughts of spanking my children a few times over the past years, but I’ve also thought about robbing a bank and doing a million other things that may be counterproductive.
I can say every time I thought of spanking my children, I was also angry or upset because my kids weren’t doing what I wanted them to do.
I can imagine if I did spank my children when I was feeling angry, that I’d be teaching my kids – anger + bigger = control & domination.
I’m convinced that our children learn from their environment and absorb everything we teach them.
Jason´s last blog ..From Attachment to Abundance
FB: If your nieces and nephews love time out then they need a different consequence. The key is in finding your child’s currency and using it to orchestrate the proper behavior. There are plenty of punishments you can give that would make a child think twice before they do something again, but a physical response isn’t necessary. I’m not saying it can’t be useful, but I can’t imagine it is ever a worthy first choice and there are always alternatives that would work just as well if not better.
Dave: Loved your drug rant. Couldn’t agree more.
Writer Dad´s last blog ..The Apple and the Tree
There is never a good reason to spank. Never.
If you have feelings to act violently/physically against your child, you have to recognize that as an adult you have the ability (unlike your impulsive child who is acting out simply because they don’t have enough life experience to do any differently) to step back, regroup, approach with a different response. And you must do that. Hitting your child is impulsive, immature, and only promotes the impulsive & uncontrolled behaviors in your child that you’re trying to stop! Children act as they are acted upon.
Violence only begets violence. Spanking only encourages a child to solve problems with might, not with brains. Children lose trust in you as a parent because instead of even-keeled parenting, they see you as not being able to contol yourself when things get difficult.
Its a lose-lose.
I think this is a very personal thing. I’ve read good arguments for and against. Since you went through the ‘against’ here are some good ‘for’s that i have heard:
1) “I would rather spank my child in love than have a police officer discipline them without love years down the road.” (this might sound dramatic, but considering my DH and I are taking bets on when the five year old next door winds up in jail, maybe not so much.)
2) “When your toddler is naughty and you swat their bottom and are done with it, they realize they have done something wrong, there were consequences, and it is over and move on. If instead you are berating your child, the tendancy, especially if they are not listening or showing remorse, can be to belittle them (you are being such a brat, you never listen, etc etc etc.) This, in the long term, causes much more psychological damage than a swat on the bottom ever could.”
I think every child is different. When my DD was first in the walking stage, simply sitting her down and telling her no would make her burst into remorseful tears. Now that she is two, time outs work for her to an extent. But honestly, if I swat her on the bum and tell her no or if I put her in her room or in the timeout corner, there are a lot more broken sobs involved in the timeout. I do try and use spanking as the last resort and only as punishment for things she has done that I feel could put her in danger, or if she is being deliberatly hurtful to others. In most cases she can be reasoned or compromised with. But I will spank her before I give her a time out, because for her personally at this age and stage and as this unique individual, she reacts to timeouts as if they are a traumatic and horrifying thing, and spankings as if they are simple punishment.
Also, though, I will never spank her if I am angry. And my husband never spanks, either, because he is bigger and stronger. And after she’s had a spanking and a moment to calm down we talk about it all and end with hugs. A spanking isn’t a grand whupping, it’s one or two swats on the bum after she’s been informed that if she doesn’t stop then that will be the consequence. And I will not spank outside of the toddler years, either. When she is at a level that we can discuss action and reaction then there will be appropriate consequences for those ages and stages.
lorchick´s last blog ..break
Keeping in mind as well that I am that mom standing in the middle of the mall smiling off into space while I wait for my two year old to finish her temper tantrum on the floor beside me so we can move on. I don’t consider things misbehaviour unless they are clearly done with motive in mind. Tantrum? That’s her dealing with excessive emotion. Taking a toy? She is being territorial and doesn’t understand yet that when another kid plays with one of her toys it is still hers. Making eye contact with me and smiling a naughty smile while she throws something after the final warning? That is misbehaviour.
lorchick´s last blog ..break
Short but sweet: spanking is a last resort for me; but, there are occasional times it is it the only thing what will top bad behaviour. Now, for my teenager: uh uh.
Chris´s last blog ..To Babe or Not to Babe
I’m one of those people who wish other parents would spank an unruly child. Now that I have my own son, I also can’t imagine hurting him intentionally. Though I doubt I’ll be opposed to smacking his hands when he doesn’t obey. That isn’t really hurting him, merely getting his attention. I guess my viewpoint will change as he gets older and tests my patience.
I’m firmly (having been hit with everything imaginable up to the age of 18) anti-spanking or hitting children. Or anyone hitting anyone, in fact. Well, with the exception of consenting adults hitting each other, to a point. Or boxers.
But generally, no hitting of children. It’s an act of revenge disguised (at best) as love.
dadwhowrites´s last blog ..Chickenpox
My viewpoint is that as parents, ultimately what we are doing is preparing our children to live life well. Misbehaving, endangering self or others, or otherwise falling short of the mark – these are teaching moments – opportunities to teach our children the potential negative consequence of their behavior.
A child runs around with a toy in his mouth – should we teach him that life’s consequence of doing that is a spank? That’s not even an accurate reflection of life. What is the ACTUAL potential negative consequence of running around with a toy in your mouth? Choking on that toy, of course. So I will use this situation as an opportunity to have that discussion with my child (and don’t underestimate a two year old’s ability to understand that discussion).
I do follow certain rules when teaching, however:
1) I never try to teach when I am tired, hungry, or angry. The lesson won’t be taught well.
2) I never try to teach when the student is tired, hungry, or angry. The lesson will not truly be learned.
As parents, I believe that we have much wisdom to share with our children, but that it must be shared wisely.
Glad2Dad´s last blog ..What Do You Talk to Your Children About at Dinner